The Remington Society of America
         Home         FIRST POST IS MODERATED!                     An organization dedicated to the collection and study of Remington firearms, ammunition and history
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:29 pm



Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates??? 
Author Message

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 6
Post Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
Greetings Remington Society

I recently inherited my grandfathers shotgun collection and apparently he loved OLD Model 11 12 Gauge Shotguns !!!!
I intend on restoring two or three of these for my brothers as family heirlooms.

Is there a published serial number to manufacturing date for model 11 12ga shotguns I can look up?
The research I've done suggests that the ones with bottom serial numbers are technically "Auto-loading Shotguns" and the side SN are Model 11's is this correct?

Can you tell me what year and possibly month these were manufactured ??????

Thanx K2

Serial Number & Receiver Location

175X Bottom
743X Bottom
7149X Bottom
7521X Bottom
10330X Bottom
10660X Bottom
15240X Bottom
18593X Bottom
19705X Bottom
28865X Side
33571X Side
76033X Side


Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:09 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Posts: 675
Location: Washington and Alaska
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
There is an extrapolated serial number list in James Tipton's article on these guns that appeared in the 2nd Quarter 2000 issue of the RSA's magazine. The magazine is sold out. He actually improved the list for a later version of the article that was on the Remington Arms Co. web site, but unfortunately I didn't print off a copy. His list is the best we have for the early guns, but on the Remington Society's web site is the old factory ledger from between the wars. It gives by month, the highest serial number receiver put into production, but doesn't tell when the gun was actually finished or when it was actually shipped/sold.

175X Bottom -- 1905
743X Bottom -- 1905
7149X Bottom -- 1909
7521X Bottom -- 1909
10330X Bottom -- 1911
10660X Bottom -- 1911
15240X Bottom -- 1913
18593X Bottom -- 1915
19705X Bottom -- 1917 from James Tipton's list. He says 1917 goes to 204161. The factory ledger gives 199611 as the high number on Sept. 30, 1919?!?
28865X Side -- October 1924
33571X Side -- late June 1928
76033X Side -- After WW-II, probably 1947.

For the guns made after 1921, you can look for a two- or three-letter date code on the left side of the barrel, usually between the front edge of the receiver and the choke marking. Also probably an inspector's mark or two in that area.

Remington Arms Co. introduced their 12-gauge, five-shot, John M. Browning designed, "Remington Autoloading Gun" in 1905. The company name was changed to Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. in 1911. Shortly after that Rem-UMC began calling that gun the Model No. 11. In 1920 the company name changed again to Remington Arms Co., Inc. Circa 1927/8 they changed the safety from the lever inside the trigger guard to a crossbolt behind the trigger. In 1930, they introduced the 20-gauge Model 11. Model 11 20-gauge serial numbers began at 1,000,000. In 1931, they added the 16-gauge to the line with 16-gauge serial numbers starting at 1,500,000. In 1930, they also introduced a three-shot version in 20-gauge called "The Sportsman." The 20-gauge “The Sportsman” had serial numbers beginning low 1? Maybe 1000? They added 12- and 16-gauge "The Sportsman" in 1931, with 12-gauge "The Sportsman" having serial numbers starting at 500,000 and 16-gauges having serial numbers starting at 200,000. "The Sportsman" had a three-bird roll-stamping on each side of the receiver. In 1934 DuPont acquired controlling interest of Remington Arms Co., Inc. In 1937, Remington reduced the roll-stamping on "The Sportsman" to one bird on each side and started putting the roll-stamping on Model 11 receivers as well. At the same time, the name "The Sportsman" or "Model 11" began being stamped on the bolt. On Sep. 28, 1937, they stopped the separate serial number sequence in the 2xx,xxx range for the 16-gauge "The Sportsman"; on Aug. 24, 1937, they stopped the separate serial number sequence in the 5xx,xxx range for the 12-gauges and finally on Feb. 14, 1938, they ended the separate serial numbers for the 20-gauge “The Sportsman” at 16,753. From then on the "Model 11" and "The Sportsman" were serial numbered together, continuing the Model 11 sequences. Combined 12-gauge "Model 11" and "The Sportsman" serial numbers reached 499,999 on August 1, 1943. Serial numbers were then jumped to 700,000 and continued.


Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:17 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 6
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
Thank you Researcher this was very helpful!!!
I’ve been looking for a copy of the Tipton Article, I found the back issues but as you stated, no longer available. Also did a general internet search to see if anybody had re-posted the article …no joy.
Any chance you could scan the article and post?
I also got in contact with Remington and they sent these dates for manufacture that very closely confirmed your dates with a few exceptions highlighted in red.



Researcher @Remington Society-----------Jeremy @ info@remington.com
175X Bottom – 1905-------------------------175X Bottom -- 1906
743X Bottom – 1905-------------------------743X Bottom -- 1906
7149X Bottom – 1909------------------------7149X Bottom -- 1909
7521X Bottom – 1909------------------------7521X Bottom -- 1909
10330X Bottom – 1911-----------------------10330X Bottom -- 1911
10660X Bottom – 1911-----------------------10660X Bottom -- 1911
15240X Bottom – 1913-----------------------15240X Bottom -- 1913
18593X Bottom – 1915-----------------------18593X Bottom -- 1915
19705X Bottom -- 1917----------------------19705X Bottom -- 1917
28865X Side -- October 1924-----------------28865X Side -- 1924
33571X Side -- late June 1928----------------33571X Side --1927
76033X Side -- After WW-II, probably 1947----76033X Side – 1945


I have a few other questions if you have time to respond:

How many shotguns were manufactured in years ’05 & ’06? I can believe a 4 digit serial number is the first year of ’05 NOT ’06. Did they start at SN 0001 or 1000?

What is the lowest SN that you are aware of thru this forum?

What years did they go to a 5 digit SN? (< 1911)

Was Rem Mod 11 used in WW1? (1914-1918) What SN ranges?

What are the SN ranges for WW2’s? (1939-1945)

Thanx Again!! K2


Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:13 am
Profile

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Posts: 675
Location: Washington and Alaska
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
Tipton suggests that they began at serial number 1000 in 1905. I'm pretty sure he did his list from shipping records, and shows 7,807 guns for the first year, then 14000 to 19000 each year through 1915, a slow down through WW-I and then over 20000 shipped in 1920. I'm primarily an Ansley H. Fox shotgun collector, shooter and researcher. Ansley introduced his Ansley H. Fox double in 1905, and for 1906 thru 1911, Remington shipped more Remington Autoloading Guns each year than Ansley produce in his seven years at the helm of A.H. Fox Gun Co.

I don't have much faith in the info on these old guns from Remington, as they are several corporate entities down the road from when these guns were made, and are far more interested in moving new product. I was much more confident in the days Dennis Sinneta (sp) was at the museum at the factory in Ilion.

I don't know anything about Model 11's use in WW-I, but there were lots of them in the 400000 and 700000 serial number range used in WW-II, mostly for aerial gunnery training.


Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:59 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 6
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
I did a theoretical production rate trying to match actual serial numbers with manufacturing dates.
I made LOTS of assumptions!!!!!! So this is not gospel!!!!

If anybody has any additional information to add, please do!
it would useful to match other serial number shotguns and see if they generally fall within these production rates & mfg dates

Has anybody here tried to collect all existing Rem Mod 11 serial numbers from the forum members??

Year---Est. SN---Est. Prod'n---Actual SN

1905-----8000-----7000-----743X
1906-----23000----15000
1907-----39000----16000
1908-----56000----17000
1909-----75000----19000----7521X
1910-----91000----16000
1911-----107000---16000----10660X
1912-----127000---20000
1913-----147000---20000----15240X
1914-----165000---18000
1915-----185000---20000----18593X
1916-----194000---9000
1917-----203000---9000-----19705X
1918-----212000---9000
1919-----226000---14000
1920-----243000---17000
1921-----256000---13000
1922-----269000---13000
1923-----282000---13000
1924-----296000---14000-----28865X
1925-----310000---14000
1926-----325000---15000
1927-----340000---15000
1928-----355000---15000-----33571X
1929-----362000---7000
1930-----369000---7000
1931-----376000---7000
1932-----383000---7000
1933-----390000---7000
1934-----397000---7000
1935-----404000---7000
1936-----411000---7000
1937-----418000---7000
1938-----425000---7000
1939-----432000---7000------400000*
1940-----462000---30000
1941-----497000---35000
1942-----532000---35000
1943-----572000---40000
1944-----617000---45000
1945-----667000---50000-----700000*
1946-----717000---50000-----76033X
* Suggested WW2 Production


Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:23 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 6
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
Researcher, Do you know what year they switched from the round style stock to the newer flat bottom style?


Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:41 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm
Posts: 51
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
K2Unit,

The first catalogue I have with the flat knob is the 1911-1912 edition.

I have seen photos of a 5xx s/n gun and have heard tell of someone having a gun in the 1xx range.

I have a photo copy of an Oct. 1952 Remington letter that states that s/n 15,2xx was produced in 1907.

No one will ever know for sure unless future record discoveries are made.

From the looks of things you've inherited more than just a nice collection of guns from your grandfather.

Good Luck in your search.

Are any of the collection, higher grade guns?

Will


Last edited by Fowlgunner on Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:25 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm
Posts: 51
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
K@unit,

Production information is available on this website under manufacturing dates and through the summary of the factory ledgers for all model 11's produced after Sept. 1919 by month.

These records should help you narrow down most of your collection.

Will


Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:29 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 6
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
Fowlgunner,

So you think the serial numbers started with 100 not 1000 in 1905???

The flat knob change in 1911 makes sense with the name change from "auto-loading" to Model 11......

Most of the guns need work, nothing special.....looks like there only worth about <$350 each range.

For sentimental reasons I would like to fix up a couple of the oldest ones......what is the consensus on re-bluing vs leaving the original, now brown patina finish as far as collect-ability?

Thanx! K2

[quote="Fowlgunner"]

The first catalogue I have with the flat knob is the 1911-1912 edition.

I have seen photos of a 5xx s/n gun and have heard tell of someone having a gun in the 1xx range.


Last edited by K2unit on Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:37 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 6
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
I found this from 1919 to 1944 ....looks like a little erratic record keeping at times :-) GREAT to see original records!!!!!!
Are there other records available?? Anybody seen the pre-1919 records????

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/FR09

I'll try to update my estimated production posting with this new info soon.

K2



Fowlgunner wrote:
K@unit,

Production information is available on this website under manufacturing dates and through the summary of the factory ledgers for all model 11's produced after Sept. 1919 by month.

These records should help you narrow down most of your collection.

Will


Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:45 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:53 pm
Posts: 118
Location: AuSable River, MI
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
K - I would not spend the money to reblue the guns. They are not collectable, and any money spent will most likely not be reflected in increased value should you sell them. Keep them as your family passed them to you. There are a lot of memories in those shiney blue parts - I know, I still shoot my Dad's M31 pump, and my grandson is now starting with what is now his great-grandad's gun


Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:20 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm
Posts: 51
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
Sorry,

It has been a while since I look at the Remington Letter.

It said s/n 15,2xx was produced in 1907 and shipped to Wright & Wilhelmy of Omaha Neb.

Will


Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:36 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
I too just inherited from my father his Remington Model 11 shotgun. I was told that it was bought brand new by his friend in 1918. How can I verify this. I have the serial number on the bottom of the breach. It is 2009XX. I have read some of the post replies, but am still not finding this number listed anywhere. Any help?
Thanks,
Daryl

_________________
Daryl W.
Minneapolis,MN


Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:23 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
Here are a couple of side pics of the gun I did just inherit.


Attachments:
Model11.jpg
Model11.jpg [ 55.17 KiB | Viewed 29595 times ]
img0135.jpg
img0135.jpg [ 58.27 KiB | Viewed 29595 times ]

_________________
Daryl W.
Minneapolis,MN
Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:36 pm
Profile

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:34 pm
Posts: 1
Post Re: Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???
I just recently got a Remington Pre-Model 11 in a trade. The serial number on it is 277 and it appears hand stamped. From reading some of these posts, it sounds like this was one of the first ones. Shame it's not worth any money.....


Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:42 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.