Engraved 870 Help needed
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muchow0123
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- Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 1:44 pm
Engraved 870 Help needed
I have a 870 that is engraved on both sides of the reciever and I emailed remington with the serial number and they told me it was made in 1950. Does any one have any more information about the gun like grade production number or value. Here are a few pictures any help is appriciated. Thanks Daniel.
Re: Engraved 870 Help needed
Appears to be an aftermarket job to me. I've never seen that pattern from the factory. The wood looks to be standard, so it's very unlikely to be a premium factory gun, IMHO
Re: Engraved 870 Help needed
I am not the world's greatest expert, but that appears to be some of the Japanese engraving that was quite prevalent after WW2. GIs would buy a gun in the Orient at the PX and get it engraved and bring it home.
What could have happened... did.
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muchow0123
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Re: Engraved 870 Help needed
If anyone out there has any additional information I would appreciate it
Daniel
Daniel
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Researcher
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Re: Engraved 870 Help needed
I certainly cannot swear to who did the engraving, but it wasn't done at Ilion. "Factory" hand engraved guns, D "Tournament" and F "Premier" grades, started with clean receivers. Not a receiver roll-stamped with "Remington", "Wingmaster", "Model 870" and the serial number on the left side. The gun was very likely engraved in post-WW-II occupied Japan or Germany.
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Mike Strietbeck
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Re: Engraved 870 Help needed
Daniel,
I am in agreement with the Remington Factory, that your Model 870, S/N 19439V was manufactured in 1950, and the suffix "V" indicates that it is a 12 ga. With a serial number range for the 12 ga Model 870 in 1950 encompassing serial numbers 1 - 42423, your shotgun falls within the first third of the production run.
I'm in agreement with others that your Model 870 is not a Remington Factory Engraved example. In 1950, our research records show that Remington had three master engravers on their staff. They were Carl Ennis, Robert P. Runge, and Jack Caswell, and anyone who has an example of their work will attest that the term "Master Engraver" is justified when used with their names. I have photo's of the "D" and "F" grade 870's taken for their introduction in 1950 and the quality is far superior to that on your 870. The style differs greatly as well. Your shotgun engraving appears to have been accomplished over the standard lower grade reciever roll stamping used on the "A", "B", and "C" grade firearms. That said, the project now turns to identify what you have before the engraving was accomplished.
In reviewing the 1950 Remington catalog, two models were offered with the raised ventilated rib. These were the Model 870 Wingmaster, 870TC Trap Grade and the Model 870 Wingmaster 870SB Skeet Special.
Both were offered with the same front or front and rear sight combinations.
The 870TC was offered with barrel lengths of 28" or 30" and with a full pistol grip stock with cap and recoil pad.
The 870SB was offered with a barrel length of 26", with the standard hotgun style stock and no recoil pad.
Not having a photo of the butt of your stock, existence of the recoil pad is unknown.
The grip area of your stock is not full pistol with cap, but standard shotgun style, indicating a Skeet Special stock, with a secondary verification indicated by the perimeter patter for the checking in the grip area of the stock as well as on the forearm.
Using the above reasoning, I believe that if the barrel on your 870 is 26", your shotgun is a Model 870 Wingmaster 870SB Skeet Special. If it is not 26", then either the stock or the barrel is probably not original to the shotgun as it left the factory, and further examination would be required to establish the model.
Hope this helps, and convinces you and others that $45.00 per year is not a bad deal to join the RSA and get four wonderful issues per year of our research work.
Best Regards,
Mike Strietbeck
RemShots
I am in agreement with the Remington Factory, that your Model 870, S/N 19439V was manufactured in 1950, and the suffix "V" indicates that it is a 12 ga. With a serial number range for the 12 ga Model 870 in 1950 encompassing serial numbers 1 - 42423, your shotgun falls within the first third of the production run.
I'm in agreement with others that your Model 870 is not a Remington Factory Engraved example. In 1950, our research records show that Remington had three master engravers on their staff. They were Carl Ennis, Robert P. Runge, and Jack Caswell, and anyone who has an example of their work will attest that the term "Master Engraver" is justified when used with their names. I have photo's of the "D" and "F" grade 870's taken for their introduction in 1950 and the quality is far superior to that on your 870. The style differs greatly as well. Your shotgun engraving appears to have been accomplished over the standard lower grade reciever roll stamping used on the "A", "B", and "C" grade firearms. That said, the project now turns to identify what you have before the engraving was accomplished.
In reviewing the 1950 Remington catalog, two models were offered with the raised ventilated rib. These were the Model 870 Wingmaster, 870TC Trap Grade and the Model 870 Wingmaster 870SB Skeet Special.
Both were offered with the same front or front and rear sight combinations.
The 870TC was offered with barrel lengths of 28" or 30" and with a full pistol grip stock with cap and recoil pad.
The 870SB was offered with a barrel length of 26", with the standard hotgun style stock and no recoil pad.
Not having a photo of the butt of your stock, existence of the recoil pad is unknown.
The grip area of your stock is not full pistol with cap, but standard shotgun style, indicating a Skeet Special stock, with a secondary verification indicated by the perimeter patter for the checking in the grip area of the stock as well as on the forearm.
Using the above reasoning, I believe that if the barrel on your 870 is 26", your shotgun is a Model 870 Wingmaster 870SB Skeet Special. If it is not 26", then either the stock or the barrel is probably not original to the shotgun as it left the factory, and further examination would be required to establish the model.
Hope this helps, and convinces you and others that $45.00 per year is not a bad deal to join the RSA and get four wonderful issues per year of our research work.
Best Regards,
Mike Strietbeck
RemShots
Particular interest is in Revolving rifles, Cane rifles, hand guns, and all Remington knives. Conducting survey on revolving rifles, please request survey form.
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Mike Strietbeck
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Re: Engraved 870 Help needed
Daniel,
Another point of question concerning the stock. Your stock doesn't seem to match the photo's I have of the factory Trap stock and it does have the black cap at the grip, but it doesn't fit the description of the Skeet Special stock either. If it has the recoil pad, and a 28" or 30" barrel, it is probably the TC Trap grade.
Mike Strietbeck
RemShots
Another point of question concerning the stock. Your stock doesn't seem to match the photo's I have of the factory Trap stock and it does have the black cap at the grip, but it doesn't fit the description of the Skeet Special stock either. If it has the recoil pad, and a 28" or 30" barrel, it is probably the TC Trap grade.
Mike Strietbeck
RemShots
Particular interest is in Revolving rifles, Cane rifles, hand guns, and all Remington knives. Conducting survey on revolving rifles, please request survey form.
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muchow0123
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 1:44 pm
Re: Engraved 870 Help needed
Thanks Mike and all others for the information on this gun. This was the first shotgun I ever used to shoot trap and have had a lot of fun out of it. This gun made me realize why the 870 is the most reliable pump shotgun ever produced. Daniel.